Many religions propagate by preying on our most deep rooted fears and insecurities. They use carrot and stick tactics to keep followers on side, and to entrap and pounce upon potential converts.  Because these tactics attack deep rooted, deep seeded fears and emotions, they work on people of all ages, persuasions and backgrounds.  There are, evidently, people who can see through these tactics.  For some this ability is born out of the fact they were not indoctrinated into religion throughout their childhood, for others critical thinking leads them in the right direction.
I’m fascinated by this carrot and stick approach, and the lengths established religions go to in order to keep up the charade.  The lengths they go to in order to suppress rational and critical thought, and the lengths they go to in order to convince those that will listen that the rewards, and punishments, are real and present.  It occurred to me that this is unique in our world, there is nowhere else an unproved threat is so feared, and an unproved reward so coveted.  Even considering what I would consider to be “edge cases”, such as the threat of prison for accumulating parking tickets, or the reward of winning the lottery, we do not rely on unsubstantiated claims, we can do the math on lottery odds and we can read the law that law enforcement officers apply.  For religion, it is the various deities that hold us up against their own, in some cases unknown, standards.
One facet of our lives that does seem to hinge on a similar carrot and stick mechanism is actually an offshoot of, or a poor relation to, religion.  Children up and down the land will be familiar with Santa Claus, and his unique brand of “justice”.  Much like a deity, he judges people based on their behaviour and rewards or punishes (punishment through the lack of reward in light of the children’s peers being rewarded) them based on his judgement.  And much like religion, the criteria for gaining this reward is largely unknown and ambiguous. “Be good” isn’t a sufficiently sophisticated mantra on which to live one’s life. “Good” varies based on a persons emotional and psychological make-up and their current situation. To you, someone with money and a job, stealing a loaf of bread may not seem like an altruistic venture, but to someone with no money, and a family to feed, it may seem like a judicial, justifiable, “good” act.  The concept of “Good” as a measurement is relative to a large number of variables, and as such leaves those who are being judged unsure as to where the measurement points lie.
The preceding paragraph is a fairly detailed analysis of what should be a simple concept. “Be good and you’ll get toys” is how it usually plays out, or, equally regularly, “stop that or Santa won’t bring you anything for Christmas”. Â The carrot, and the stick. Â So why do we grow out stop believing in Santa, but not a deity? Is it because it becomes socially unacceptable to continue your belief in one but not the other? Â The similarities are obvious to all, the unproved being that judges us and dishes out rewards and punishments, the mountains of evidence that contradict eithers existence (Santa could no more travel around the earth in the space of a single day than God could create the earth, heaven, the universe, billions of stars and billions of planets in seven) and the clear intent of the creators of these myths (control and power).
While you’re pondering the acceptability of believing one imaginary being over another (remember atheists only disbelieve in one less God than theists – depending on the brand of theist), consider whether Santa Claus is a form of theistic grooming of children. Â Is it a way of making it acceptable to believe in such unfounded claims later in life? Â Is Santa, and the rewards believing in him provides in your early life, simply laying the groundwork for future theism? Â It may just be that the rewards are more fitting to adults. Â Many people get to a stage in their life at which point they can just purchase items they desire, in which case offering physical, tangible, rewards to believe in a deity may not be the convincer it is to a child. Â It may also be that the punishment is so great that fear drives followers to religion, an eternity in hell is far worse than not getting the latest G.I Joe toy.
However, it is my belief (and I’m no psychologist) that not only is the concept of religion ingrained on our psyches at a a young age, but being encouraged to believe in Santa lays the ground work for a life of non-questioning belief.  It’s but a small piece of the jigsaw, admittedly, but a part nonetheless.
Did you believe in Santa as a kid? If so, why did you stop? And if you currently believe in a deity, why have you continued to believe in that deity long after discounting Santa as a credible, existing, entity?
*Note – I’ve heard of stories where parents have used the tradition of gifting at Christmas to push their children towards Christianity. Â If you don’t believe in Christ, then you don’t celebrate Christmas, and you don’t deserve a gift. Â As I touched on earlier, this threat can be simply brushed away in adulthood, but when you are reliant on your parents, it’s not so simple. Â Quite frankly, these actions are pathetic. Â If your child wants to better themselves by freeing their mind from the shackles of religious, dark age teachings, then you should exceptionally proud and encourage it at every opportunity. Â The focus of this article is not to deal with these cases, which I hope are few and far between.
Atheist, I’m back after a holiday and see you’ve been busy.
Obviously you don’t have kids. The problem with Santa comes from the secular not the religious world. He began life as St. Nicolaus, a third century Bishop, and since his feast day is around Christmas, his reputation for generosity was linked in the popular imagination around his feast.
Thanks to Coca-Cola he has become a jolly fat man in a red suit, having dropped all signs of being a bishop…. He now lives in the North Pole, etc…. All of this, of course, is quite harmless, even if it is hard to avoid the consumeristic attitude poor Santa (“Saint”) has to bear every year. One can sympathise with parents who use him as an incentive for their children to behave well, even if I agree that this is actually counter productive in the long run.
But it is too much to suggest that this is “to suppress rational and critical thought” and “to convince those that will listen that the rewards, and punishments, are real and present.”
Nor is it true that this is “unique” in our world. There are laws and jails and punishments, there is selfishness and generosity. Parents who have a bit of common sense (whether Christians or not) can help children to learn the virtue of generosity by telling the fantasy of Santa Claus. It is quite mean to deprive them of this source of joy at the “festive” time of year when all their friends will be enjoying it.
To paint Santa as a harsh judge is highly revealing. I doubt any kid would see Santa that way. No wonder you see God as a harsh judge!
We don’t really stop believing in Santa, who is really just a personification of generosity. As we mature we come to realise this – we can shed the jolly fat man, but not his message. God, on the other hand is not just a personification, but a reality, and so we maintain believe in him and his message.
Have some imagination! I am amazed that you can’t even enjoy the idea of Santa travelling around the globe in a night visiting every household, as a kind of way of wishing every person joy and peace at this time of year. Once again, religion has brought joy, and atheism hates it.
Hatred, judgment, miserliness and bigotry are on your side of the fence! You are desperate to take Christmas away from us. It stuns me that you want to take Santa away as well!
The Atheist said “Because these tactics attack deep rooted, deep seeded fears and emotions, they work on people of all ages, persuasions and backgrounds. There are, evidently, people who can see through these tactics.”
When my daughter returned from her first day a church she ran to me and gave me a big hug, then she told me how she spent 2 hours being threatened with burning in hell forever. She was 4 years old at the time and she understood they were trying to manipulate her.
It was years later before she went to church again and only to spend time with her mother and grandmother. Sadly it was one of those twisted anti-gay hate-speech sermons. She stood up, called them a bunch of bigots and walked out.
Jonathan Baker said “Once again, religion has brought joy, and atheism hates it….Hatred, judgment, miserliness and bigotry are on your side of the fence! You are desperate to take Christmas away from us. It stuns me that you want to take Santa away as well!”
Jonathan has used the apologist style of dancing around the subject then resorting to the appeal to emotion, the “hate” card and the old “War on Christmas” routine. These are example of the damage done to their minds and how they feel threatened over seeing another perspective.
Psy, it is very simple. I am totally opposed to a culture of threats, and a misuse of emotion (for I think that emotion can be used effectively in a correct way – it is an entirely legitimate and good human faculty). I think you will find that it is the original atheist piece that is full of emotion and the “hate” card and the very very recent war on Christmas. Just look at the very opening sentence.
On the other hand, I have pointed out that in normal circumstances (admitting the infinite ways that humans are capable of twisting everything) Santa is just a jolly old man who wants people to be happy and generous to each other at least once a year. What can possibly be so wrong with that? Where is the hatred? Where the threat? I am totally not threatened by other perspectives – I am a philosopher, it is my daily bread. If there is damage being done to minds it is to people who irrationally hate others being made happy by anything that has any kind of religiosity.
=If there is damage being done to minds it is to people who irrationally hate others being made happy by anything that has any kind of religiosity.
Ah, there is that hate word again. There was a time when I assumed the use of the word hate was a simple propaganda ploy, but it seem apparent that religious types actually believe it.
Have your read “Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition”? If you have I think you will understand why I think the hate issues is just part of your perception of the world and not mine.
* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management
Where the threat?
“But it is too much to suggest that this is “to suppress rational and critical thought†and “to convince those that will listen that the rewards, and punishments, are real and present.â€
A few years back there was a study a few yeas back by David Amodio that showed exactly how this type of religious conditioning lowers a persons potential IQ and reasoning skills. The jist of it is still on the internet but I was unable to find the report itself. David Amodio suggest this inhibits error recognition by suppressing the firing of spindle neurons.
Jonathan –
I’m sure kids who genuinely believe Santa has adjudged them to be evil, and therefore denied them the gifts their peers received, would disagree with you. Your assertion that
also seems misjudged. And would no doubt be countered by those children who did not receive the gifts they desired, as it would be countered by those who have had experiences similar to Psy’s daughter. Religion will no doubt bring pleasure to those who submit to it and curtail their critical thinking. Do not confuse the joy a child experiences when receiving a toy on Christmas day and any joy religion derived from religion. One is feeling pleasure upon the receipt of a real, physical gift, the other is joy derived from ignorance and submission. A child is not developed, nor experienced enough to know the difference, and that’s why such acts are dangerous.
Additionally, I think you are reading emotion into the post that simply isn’t there. I am comparing the Santa myth and religion based on logical observations. For example, in both stories you are judged at some point by an invisible entity. In both, you are rewarded for meeting some predefined set of rules that are never clearly defined. Equally, you are punished for not meeting those standards. The difference between Santa, Religion and the laws that govern our society is simply that our laws are clearly defined, and those who are accused of breaking those laws are judged by qualified, visible judges.
Do you not see my points as valid? Can you not see the similarities between religion and what the myth of Santa has become?
Psy, we are talking about Santa! You know, the jolly guy on a sleigh pulled by reindeers, who brings kids toys at Christmas. I am amazed that you can read fear and aggression into this story about love and friendship; dogmatism and intolerance into a simple story; uncertainty avoidance into fantasy; need for cognitive closure into a children’s dream; and terror management into a jolly fat man who couldn’t hurt a flee. My point is that the h*** word has nothing to do with this if someone else doesn’t bring it up…
Atheist, being more nuanced has some interesting things to say. Do you know any kids who have been judged as “evil” by Santa? I accept that that gives entirely the wrong message. Santa brings all kids presents at Christmas, or if he doesn’t the parents need to get a reality check. The message, I repeat, is LOVE and GENEROSITY. This is furthered by each family member exchanging gifts with one another (or maybe you have a problem with that too as yet more idealism).
I am reminded by an interesting quotation of G. K. Chesterton who said that fairy land taught him all the most important things in life. If there ever was a man who knew how to laugh it was he. Fewer have had a bigger IQ. But he realised that for children the whole world is a fantasy, because it was unknown: it was yet to be discovered. This is the beginning of a healthy curiosity which ought to be the origin of knowledge. “Critical thinking” is something children simply can’t do. That’s why they need parental supervision.
You compare the Santa myth and religion and read the same error into both: that they are simply a way of judging you. In fact, neither are really about that at all, just as our social organisation is not “about” the legal system, though this is a valid part. The point of Santa is not to make you quake in your boots for fear that you will get no presents in your stocking. Any parents who push that have really got it wrong, I readily agree. It is quite the opposite: to help you learn the happiness that comes from giving.
I would also reiterate the point I made originally, that Santa is now very different to what he was in the middle ages, when the link with generosity was probably more obvious. Today, it may well be that you need some common sense as a parent to bring it to life in your children. It is truly a secular part of Christmas…. the Near Eastern Bishop is totally gone. Still, you are right, all feast days come from religious traditions. The red fluffy hat was once a mitre and the red suit were a bishop’s vestments. The only holidays (=holy days) that the secular world can muster are “Labour Day” (when everyone gets the day off, so hardly a celebration of work whatever that would mean) and various National Holidays (which normally have a religious significance anyway). Perhaps such events as the Olympic games come the closest to a purely secular festival, but even there I hardly need remind any readers about the religious origins of that… This is what I meant when I said that “You are desperate to take Christmas away from us.” Atheism (as an anti-culture) is incapable of bringing festivity, and hates the fact that religion can and does.
Jonathan, Excuse me for not clarifying my last post, someone felt they had to drag me away from my internet to deal with some crisis in real life, what is with these people?
I don’t see the issue here as Santa but the abuse of reward /punishment for conformity and conditioning which we apparently agree on. As for my kids being exposed to the Santa myth as part of their religious holiday I had no objections, however when my kids asked me I told them about he historic St. Nicholas and left it at that. They were free to come to their own conclusions from there.
=“Critical thinking†is something children simply can’t do. That’s why they need parental supervision.
I think think are quit capable of critical thinking while I agree wholeheartedly they need proper guidance.
=Do you know any kids who have been judged as “evil†by Santa?
Yes I have due to no fault of their own or their parents directly but through loss of family income. Which bring me to ‘promises broken’. I have never made any promises to my children while their mother has left them a long path of disappointments.
I have no issue with holidays with family and friends and I did shower my grandchildren with educational toys, chemistry sets, telescopes, star charts, chess boards, ect. However this was the first year were I didn’t need to be at work so others could have the holiday off. As me not being a festive person I would attribute it to my IQ distribution and I would also attribute my lack of belief in superstition to my IQ.
As a child I received the same types of educational toys as I gave my kids and grand kids. I learned chess at an early age as did my kids. My daughter who has the lowest IQ of between the 3 of us at 138 was momentarily outraged last summer when one of her friends beat her in a game of chess, “No one beats me in chess but my Dad!!!” then she started laughing. The irony was she had just beaten a physics major but lost to a dry wall worker. There are merits and drawback to above average IQs which would be a good issue for debate on this forum.
To clarify my last post Fear and aggression, Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity, Uncertainty avoidance, Need for cognitive closure, Terror management and I left of Exclusionism in the last post and reduced ability for critical thinking. I see these as undesirable traits brought on by these abusive religious indoctrination conditioning methods. In the past I have found that some people tend to defend these traits usually without critical thinking.
Did you get a chance to read or look over the “Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition†study on the internet? It covers these points in more detail.
Psy, I’m glad we agree that Santa is not an evil monster after all. The point is, that Atheist thinks that he is.
I think we are all agreed that an emotive use of the reward / punishment mentality is unhealthy, so that parents who use Santa in this way are really abusing him. It’s not Santa’s fault!
My other points are:
– Fantasy is an important part of childhood (or of any age). Good fantasy stimulates the imagination and educates the emotions.
– Real festivity is a by-product of religiosity (the origin of culture). This is not the same as what we now mean by holiday (day off, or even time with the family). Festival involves a celebration within the community of something significant, involving traditions and songs that are totally gratuitous (ie have no meaning outside that community). Actually I have thought of a modern one: birthday parties. A birthday cake with candles, singing “Happy Birthday” and so on… they are totally non-essential, and yet bring a spirit so necessary to us essentially social beings.
The key factor I was highlighting was gratuity. Thus educational toys (while good in themselves) have a purpose and are not really festive. Soap and bubbles, carousels, balloons and candy: now that’s more like it. And with all respect to your through-the-roof IQ and that of all intelligent fellow atheists, if you don’t know how to party sometimes (unfortunately that word means something very different today) there is something emotionally lacking.
Jonathan – Yes, I accept that the image of Santa has changed over the years, but we are where we are. I doubt many children think of Santa as the original incarnation, and would no doubt describe the current jolly, red suited man if asked.
I find it intriguing that you do not believe Santa to be judgemental, and that all children should receive presents on Christmas in the guise of Santa. Again, this is all down to perception. There are children who are aware of the Santa myth, believe it to be true, yet are not in a position to receive gifts at Christmas (be it because their parents cannot afford it, because their parents do not feel it appropriate, because they do not have parents etc.). The world is not always as simple as we would like it to be. If Santa is the personification of “Love” and “Generosity”, are these children not worthy of such things? And again, that may not be the intent, but it may very well be the perception.
I’m in agreement with your suggestion that children are not capable of critical thinking, which is why the concept of Santa is potentially dangerous. We have this invisible entity who judges the behaviour of children and serves out gifts to those he feels worthy. We also have this punishment / reward mechanism in place which not only mirrors that of religion but is inherently linked to it. With the limited reasoning and critical thinking abilities of children, it would seem irresponsible to expose them to such things.
Do I have a problem with gift giving between friends and family members at Christmas? No, not when the intent is good. The problem as I see it is that it all feels a bit too much like bribery and blackmail. Believe in God and you will be rewarded, don’t believe in God and you’ll be punished. Those are dangerous ideas to be polluting a young impressionable mind with.
Atheist, I don’t think that Santa is judgmental, and wish that all children could receive presents from him. I accept that this is unfortunately not always possible. As you say, sometimes sad situations intervene. These are surely the exceptions, however, and I don’t think that we should ever make principles based on the exceptions … still, I think that a creative parent (or carer) can bring Santa alive – surely there are few people that couldn’t provide even one little bit of candy from him. Also, there are many charities who donate all kinds of things to poverty-stricken families precisely because they realise how wonderful it can be for children.
Your fear of danger is unwarranted. Do you think that parents who would potentially present Santa as a malicious bribe machine, not be using the very same techniques year round without him?
In reality, however, the punishment/reward idea is not really part of it at all. The whole idea is that the kid gets the presents regardless. The conclusion that even a child with a poor self-image would have to come to is that they have been good (or at least good enough). Once again it is the parents who have the opportunity to help form their children or miss an opportunity. Adults are the ones who do (sometimes!) have critical thinking, so they have to do a little when it comes to how they present Santa as a bearer of the joy of the season… or not.
I am amazed that you think of gift-sharing even in the family as bribery and blackmail. I hope you will forgive me for thinking through all of this that you must have had a rather unhappy upbringing. I hope I am wrong, because it has a vital impact on your entire life.
Even when it comes to God the motto is not: “Believe in God and you will be rewarded, don’t believe in God and you’ll be punished.” It is a great deal more complicated than that. I agree that it can be presented like that, but faith is a great deal more than an intellectual assent to something as I have attempted to explain briefly elsewhere. In fact one who does not believe in God through no fault of their own and yet follows their conscience will be saved before one who does believe and then lives a life of debauchery…
Johnathan,
You bring an interesting perspective to the idea of santa – namely that he’s real. You make statements like ‘Santa is not judgmental’ and ‘is not an evil monster’. Of course neither is true, Santa doesn’t exist.
But, to parse out your claim that the _character_ santa is not judgmental, that would seem to be contradicted by the modern incarnation of the legend, simply from the line ‘he’s making a list and checking it twice, gonna find out who’s naughty or nice’. This is the image of santa children are fed, from both the christian and non-secular perspectives. Indeed, santa is presented as being _very_ judgmental.
WE parlay that into your misguided assertion that the general philosophy of religion is _not_ one of simple sanctions. Can you provide and example of a mainstream religion that does _not_ demand allegiance to dogma under the threat of _not_ achieving a state of spiritual enlightenment?
Abrahamic religions – the soul will be denied entrance to heaven
Hindu – reincarnation as lower orders for not following dogma
buddhism – The nirvana can only be achieved through following the eight-fold path
What are these, if not threats against eschewing dogma?
But, to more specifically counter your claim that the god motto is _not_ specifically based on accepting dogma under the penalty of sanctions, you could not be more wrong. Sure, the more enlightened and intellectual followers of god-based philosophies can provide compelling evidence to the contrary, but where does that leave the gullible masses? Under the transfixation of Asshats like Pat robertson who proudly proclaim the 9/11 attacks were gods punishment for not persecuting gays, and other similar gems.
No, jonathan, santa is not real. At best it’s a juvenile fantasy that can be used to enliven a childs imagination, at worst it _is_ a form punitive threat, intended as behavior modification. The problems lies in that the extension of that punitive threat manifests itself in the accepting of the god scam, believe under threat of eternal damnation.
Come on, Zen. Kermit the frog, Winnie the Pooh, Bananas in Pyjamas, Barney and Thomas the train all don’t exist in the sense you are talking about. Yet it is also true to say that they are not judgmental – their authors have outlined their characters well and we all understand that about them. Santa adds an extra layer of reality, though, in that the presents that he drops off are real. To read judgment in a gift is exactly the same problem with religion. If God offers a gift (of a relationship with him) and you turn it down, that’s up to you. A gift is only a gift if received. But to turn this around and say that God denies you the gift if you turn it down is just silly. I have absolutely no belief in Nirvana, but don’t find it surprising or judgemental that Buddhists claim that there are means to achieve it any more than I find it judgmental to say that if you want to play the piano you need to practice.
The sorts of comments that you make about Santa Claus, and how you see God as a kind of mirror, are revealing. If you told a classroom of kids that God was like Santa (being misleading I wouldn’t advise it) and then asked whether God sounded terrible I think you would get a very strong negative.
In my opinion it is actually God’s/Santa’s generosity that you can’t stand. You are determined to hate him, and so you read his gifts as a bribe.