photo credit: Max Choong
I know that there are many readers of this blog who are “of faith”. Some, I respect for their willingness to enter into open discussion about their religion, and I accept that for some people, religion is a necessary part of their lives. There are other people, however, who can’t see past blind faith. And these people really need educating. So let’s take a look at the most recent example, a group of people, based in Washington D.C believe that fuel prices have fallen because they hold regular prayer sessions at gas stations.
So let’s teach these people a basic rule of the universe. Causation does not equal correlation. It’s quite simple, and best illustrated by the Simpsons. The crux is that if I do a rain dance, rain falling does not prove that my rain dance has worked. It’s a classic mistake made for those looking for proof of religion. If they pray for something to happen, and then it does, religious people will assume causation. That their prayers caused the change to happen. The problem with this is that, if you believe your prayers have been answered and there is causation there, you also have to accept that every time you pray and it isn’t answered, it’s one mark in the column that’s headed “There is no God”. And there’s no way I’ll accept any response to this that says “God moves in mysterious ways”, contains the words “grand plan/scheme” or makes any reference to free will. Because if there was a God, these would surely be the most inane, selfish, prayers to answer.
Lets flip this a bit. Sure no one can prove that there is a religion/god/prayer whatever… but is there someone that can prove otherwise?
Why is it so “cool” lately to deny someone something that makes them happy or completes them? If your car or shoes or whatever help you out in life, is it my place to go and burn those items in the name of environment or whatever excuse I make?
I couldn’t agree with you more. I have known people who have selfishly prayed to be dismissed from jury duty and then praise god for his divine intervention when they get the dismissal notice. I know of another woman who prayed for a yogurt shop to open up nearby her house. It did and she took credit. Unanswered prayers are explained as not being in god’s will or his plan. Selfish sheep.
Okay I stumbled across this site through google and now I’m finding myself commenting on everything (good work, website designers).
I pray sometimes, and as far as I can remember, all my prayers have been answered. Not saying it proves anything or is an amazing series of coincidence, and I generally don’t pray for yoghurt or cheap petrol, but yeah, all my prayers have been answered.
I believe that before the foundation of the world God determined whatsoever shall come to pass. He is in charge. He is the Author. The events in our daily lives fall in line according to His plan. So therefore I believe that if we are praying for something,…maybe healing for my mother, it was already determined. That is, the moment and circumstance that she would be healed or die. If we think that the power is in our hand, and she is healed, we might say yeah prayer works (and I did it). If she is not healed we could say prayer doesn’t work, and there is no God. Praying is gaining intimacy with God, and dependency on His strength and His plan…not ours. God’s plan could be compared to a tapestry. We see the threads on the under side. They look crazy and incomplete to us. He (being the creator of the tapestry) sees the finished product on the top side.
By the way, my mother was not healed and she died. She was a believer in the salvation of Christ, and she is with Him, and without pain sorrow or want. That so pleases me to know she is there with Him, more than it would please me to have her here with me. I miss her dearly.
I could say God did not answer my prayer, there is no God, He’s mean… but knowing God is good, and there is a greater plan than mine is such a comfort to me. So I don’t question myself…Did I pray enough?
I am constantly amazed at the incredulity of those who seem surprised that rational thought and faith can sometimes coexist. The modern University, Hospital and public school were all invented by the Church which is why you have them – and I mean the official church: monks and all that. It’s right there in your history books – actually it’s not, normally, but it should be.
There are some really silly ideas people have about religiosity. I don’t know anything about the D.C. gas station prayer group and don’t want to comment on specifics.
The basic principle on prayer is this: God is not just a slot machine in the sky. Prayer is a relationship that involves a lot more than just constantly asking for things, and in fact, would be as sterile as a marriage where the couple’s only communication involved requests from the other.
Of course there are those who have blind faith (the heresy of fideism: yes it has been traditionally frowned upon). Some people have blind faith in atheism. They think that finding some apparent inconsistency in the Bible or raising a mocking prayer and not being answered is sufficient to disprove God. A good will is required for belief because it is much more about relationship (God is Trinity) than doctrine.
So, now, my fundamental point. I think even the gas station crowd are aware that “causation does not equal correlation.” These people simply believe that God may well have granted their petition. I hope that they would not deny that the primary cause was a complicated global economical situation. God, to be God, knows everything about every single factor – sometimes atheists seem to forget this little fact about him. Prayers do not “work” or “not work” in the same sense that lovers doing little favours for each other don’t subject them to any kind of calculus.
It is always dangerous to exaggerate someone’s opinion beyond recognition and then mock that. It is particularly difficult to have a discussion about religion without emotions running high – on the part of atheists especially. I am amazed at how much time people spend dis-proving something that they claim makes no difference in their lives.
“There are other people, however, who can’t see past blind faith.”
I am amazed that people believe anything other than that we all operate from faith. There is no objective proof for the existence or the non-existence of god. So any point of view is going to be one of faith. Everyone has a worldview and no-one is able to prove their worldview to be correct….ergo ‘faith’
Yes…I know the theological mantra of…it not that I believe god does not exist…its that I have no belief etc ……spare me the grammatical exercise…..you still operate from faith
Since none of this ‘faith’ is based on any sort of non-objective foundation …all of it is technically ‘blind faith’. Any claims to have a superior rational basis than anyone else simply moves you into the ‘fundamentalist’ category……be that ‘fundamentalist Christian/Muslim/Atheist’ ..if you doubt this…look up the true meaning of the word ‘fundamentalist’.
So welcome to the wonderful and universal world of faith and belief. Okay…now you can share your worldview with me…seriously…I am interested.