After the suggestion in one of this site’s comments stating that it required more faith to be an atheist than a theist, because the non-existence of a deity can never be proven, I thought it would be fun to see if we can logically disprove the existence of “God”. I picked the Christian God because I am more familiar with the Christian faith than any other, I’ve read the bible and have previously lived with devout Christians. I feel qualified. So let’s see where this goes…
For this to work, we have to agree on the following two statements, and accept that Christians believe them to the true: -
- God is infallible
- The Bible is the true word of God
These aren’t outrageous statements, and in fact, have been echoed on this very blog numerous times in the comments.
The two statements above are clearly interdependent. The Bible tells Christians that God is infallible, and Christians believe the Bible because they believe it was written by an infallible deity. Almost a self-fulfilling prophecy, almost. So the start of our logical deduction must be the Bible, so let’s concentrate on that.
Let’s take the Christian God’s greatest act, creating the world and all who live on it (indirectly). The start of all this, on God’s own words: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day”. Using genealogy, we can roughly estimate the age of the earth, as stated by the Bible, to be 6500 years. The very top estimate would be close to 10,000 years, but that’s a stretch. Science has proven that the earth is closer to 4.5 billion years old. Radiometric dating has shown us this, and has remained consistent with lunar and terrestrial samples. In other words, we haven’t just tested this once in one situation, it’s been extensively tested. This isn’t a guess, or a hunch, there’s a substantial amount of evidence to back this up.
And that’s the geological age of the earth. What about the creatures on the earth? We, as human beings, were created 6500 years ago, according to the Bible, starting with Adam and then Eve. The oldest discovered human fossil is approximately 1,300,000 (1.3 million) years old. That would have meant that humans lived on earth before God created either humans or the earth. In fact, depending on how much evidence you consider to be acceptable, and how you define us as a species, you could place humans at between 1.8 million and 130,000 years old. No one could sensibly claim that humans are less than 130,000 years old. There is simply too much evidence available for our inspection. Either way, much older than the Bible’s claims.
Let’s take another example. God decided that the earth needed cleansing, so he instructed Noah to gather up two of ever species to save. Everything other than Noah, his family (or part of his family) and the animals he chose to save would be killed. There are around 10 MILLION known species of animal on our planet. Male and female, that would be 20 million animals Noah saved. I’ve never seen a boat that big, even with modern engineering techniques. Noah also would have had to travel to different parts of the earth to collect the various animals. You rarely see a penguin and a scorpion living in the same location (zoos don’t count). He then, after the waters had receded, would have had to return them to their original locations. You also have to question to environment on board Noah’s Ark, an environment that could sustain animals that require intense heat and animals that require intense cold, as well as Noah and his family that required a more moderate climate. Impossible.
Just so we’re clear, I’m establishing that that the Bible is inaccurate. Not just inaccurate, but massively inaccurate. There are more examples of course, some which make it clear that the author of the Bible thinks the world is flat, some which make it clear that the author thought the world did not move and then there are more considered examples, such as the value of pi being unknown at the time (surely God would have known it!?!).
So this is my statement, logically derived from the above.
“The Bible is inaccurate – therefore God is fallible – therefore the definition of God is incorrect – therefore God does not exist.”
To add a touch of justification to this, let’s break it down. We know the Bible is inaccurate, in fact the Bible is contradictory within its own pages. The Bible is the only place that defines God, and God is defined as being infallible. The Bible is also stated as being of God’s word (albeit written by man, see below). Seeing as we know the only source that defines the Christian God is inaccurate, and at least part of the definition is inaccurate (infallible), we can not trust the remainder of the definition. Therefore the definition of God in invalid and God does not exist.
There will come arguments from Christians that while God is infallible, and the Bible is the true word of God, the Bible was in fact written by man, who is fallible. This does not hold up when you examine the scale and volume of inaccuracies held within the Bible. I can understand man rounding down the value of pi, for example, but to get the entire creation story wrong is a bit of a stretch. Likewise, given that God is all powerful, he surely would not have left an obviously inaccurate account of his greatest work go to press, or was that just another sign of his fallibility?
I think I’ve made a stronger argument, based on Christian beliefs, for the non existence of God than there ever has been for the existence of such a deity.
Related posts:
Psy – Right!!! that is why people believe in God because an answer to solve the problem of death is given!!!
Now you didn’t find an answer because you don’t believe. You say false hope because you don’t understand; and you say empty promises in exchange for obedience because you do not excerise faith in God so you have no desire to follow. You can’t prove nothing you say. You can only say I don’t believe!!! Which is your choice & your right to do!!!
But, I believe and that’s my choice & my right to do!!! I found an answer for death in the Bible and I’m sad you missed it. The hope offered in the Bible isn’t false to me it’s real and comforting. Promises recorded in the Bible are rich & desirable and my obedience is a very small price to pay.
In conclusion, God’s Love is free and offered as a gift to the world but only believers receive. And theirs nothing I can sell God that he needs. He’s only looking for me to love him in return.
PhairW – What I’ve been trying to say about my relationships with each of my wives is their behavior testified to what their feelings for me likely were or are and my behavior testified to what my feelings likely were for them. You want to use the word “believe” as I “believed their love”. What I’m trying to say is I KNOW they loved me and they KNEW I loved them through genuinely real expressions in action and word. When I was no longer convinced by their word and action they did NOT love me, were NOT committed to me, I broke the relationships. I’m merely making the distinction between “believing” and “knowing”. If I merely believed they loved me, it would have far less to do with any evidence of their love and commitment and far more to do with my wanting to cling to an unsubstantiated belief. When I say I KNOW they were committed to me and KNOW they loved me, that knowledge is based on actual behaviors that could not have been interpreted any other way than that they were committed to and loved me. In other words – evidence of love. Without such evidence, it would have been belief without good reason for it.
I approach the notion of a “god” in precisely the same way, if I see concrete and deductive reason to think such a thing exists, I will know it exists. I will not have to BELIEVE it exists. For me, because I have self-respect and respect for good reasoning versus poor reasoning – my values – I do not indulge in belief without cause. You claim that “god is love”. I experience love all of the time regarding many, many things. I have not once seen any evidence in all of that love that it had to do with anything or anyone except my own mind. I see no reasonable evidence for a “god” or that such “god” is “love”. One would think that, if what theists claim is true, we would see concrete evidence everywhere around us and within us. I’m a reasonable human being and incredibly open to experience, possibilities and likelihoods. If anyone was going to stumble on such an alleged “deity”, I would be it. In fact, in spite of attempting to discover and observe such evidence, I have found none and continue to find none. I cannot believe because such believe has no substance. I cannot know for the same reason.
So it is with “love”. I do not BELIEVE my wife loves me – I know it from her actual behavior. She does not need to believe my love for her, she know I love her from my actual behavior. Neither of us needs belief – we know. We know because we each feel it within ourselves and can feel it coming from the other.
If you BELIEVE I’m merely being difficult rather than attempting to engage in rational discourse with you, you can discontinue addressing me at your leisure. What you don’t KNOW is I’m actually taking great care to engage with you and with all authenticity for a rational discussion. That you believe I’m being deliberately difficult is a false belief. All of the evidence is here in this discussion for you to KNOW I’m being genuine and patient. All you have to do is open to it.
=The hope offered in the Bible isn’t false to me it’s real and comforting.
Comforting? I have no understanding of this need for comfort. What is so scary about life? I mean the world is a playground of things to do, places to go and people to see. I don’t get it.
Naumadd – Okay! I fully understand you now, Thank You!!! I thought you were just being diffcult but, if you review your previous argument, I think you would or should agree it’s different from your current argument/explanation (it doesn’t further explain).
Okay, so now that I feel like we are having a reasonable debative convo…, I still disagree, and I think you’re simply in denial respectfully.
Here’s Why: Can you truthfully say, The Love ya’ll felt/feel for one another never turn on the imagination within??? And if it did Why, if ya’ll didn’t BELIEVE in the Love that brought ya’ll together??? hmmm…..
Now, I said it before and I’ll say it again…, I know God is real because I can feel his LOVE!!! In Life we prove what’s REAL by our five senses, RIGHT??? (Sight, Sound, Taste, Feel/Touch, & smell) If you agree, I testify that God is Real because I can feel him within me. By sight I couldn’t prove God but that’s okay, neither can a blind person. By sound I can’t prove God but that’s Okay, neither can a deaf person. By smell or taste I couldn’t accurately prove God but that’s okay, I need sight and/or maybe hearing even to know what I’m smelling and tasting. But, by feeling him I know he’s REAL and everybody (no matter the conditon) can feel LOVE. Now LOVE come from someone or something alive. Therefore I know God is REAL and I believe in God and the power of his LOVE. Now I can tell you about it and help you understand and even guide you in the direction to receiving this Love for yourself. But, You must have faith or else you will never know what I mean and can never know this level of LOVE.
Psy – I don’t know how you got disconnected from our convo but let me put us back on track…, The comfort being talked about is for death. Death is what’s so scary about life. Death stops life, RIGHT??? I want to live, I think you want to live, so logically Death is a problem, RIGHT??? You said, previously you are an analytical thinker…, so show me!!! Does this make sense to you…???
Now although you comment seems to me off track, I’m still glad you made this statement: “I mean the world is a playground of things to do, places to go and people to see.” — This statement confirms my earlier argument that people who don’t believe in God ignores the seriousness of death. You comfort yourself against the fear of it. And live life without an answer to overcome death. Yes, I know life can be enjoyable. But I (and many others) can’t enjoy life with the gloom of death all around me (us)! Atheism offers me no answers. But God has an answer, so now I can live life free of all my worries concerning death. I hope you understand and we’re now back on track with our convo!!!
I (and many others) can’t enjoy life with the gloom of death all around me (us)!
So why do you insist on converting atheist to your placebo cure for doom and gloom when we don’t suffer from your “authoritarian personality” disorders and insecurities?
Psy – Listen, I’m having trouble understanding you. Your replies are opening wide the door of confusion in my mind. I don’t know if you serious or not, if you’re just being diffcult no matter what I say, or maybe you don’t understand me so our convo can’t stay on track. I’m really starting to become un-interested in your comments!!!
It seems you ignoring everything I say, and only attacking selective portions of my statements that you choose. I’m not ignoring you and I’m taking you very serious, allowing you the chance to prove to me, that there is no GOD! I’m putting my faith on the line and allowing you and anyone else to challenge my belief, point out the faults and/or flaws. Likewise, with the Heading of this forum being: Logically disproving the Christian God, I join in this forum to represent my faith in the Christian God and show the flaws and/or faults of Atheism.
Now please, I’m here to debate with individuals making rational, logical, and reasonable comments that show why they are an Atheist and why they think their Right. Individuals who honestly answers my questions and I do the same. You ignore all of my questions. You have put me in your christian or theist category of crazy losers, and do not debate with me according to what I say. And you want me to answer your questions.
Now I’m willing to try again. I’ll start by answering your last question to me. But, if we continue in this confusion I will stop my replies to you. Okay!!!
Now, to answer your question, I want you to know the truth that God is real and he’s our only help to deal with death. I’m trying to persuade and compel you. There’s nothing “authoritarian” about what I’m doing. You not forced to believe me. I’m not insecure, my belief in God makes me secure. I believe you are insecure but your unaware because you ignore death due to you reasoning of not being afraid of death. (which we discuss earlier). Now can you answer my previous question(s)???
Ok, I feel I’m rejoining this a little late in the day, but your discussions are fascinating.
benjeans – Please don’t confuse evolution and natural selection.
Phairw – I think one of the patterns in your comments is that you are very fearful. You mention using your belief to comfort people who are grieving, or dying, and that comfort that does not take this approach is “false comfort”. Would your approach be of comfort to a family who had just lost a treasured child who was an atheist, or one who was too young to believe or be Christened? Would they not go to purgatory? How would this be of any comfort to a grieving family?
As for love, there has been a great debate here as to whether love is observable or whether love is God. As Psy and I have pointed out, love is an observable reaction in the brain. The feeling we experience is the result of the presence of this chemical reaction. I do not have to believe my partner loves me, she tells me she does and her actions support her statements to the affirmative. I can’t “feel” her love, I can only witness her actions. I’m intrigued as to how you can feel the emotions of another entity, especially since that entity is invisible, imperceptible and completely, absolutely, fundamentally unproven. To take another example, when my partner is happy, a reaction takes place in her amygdala which ultimately leads to a physical change, most notably her smiling. I don’t “feel” her happiness, it’s there for me to see and to perceive. I don’t “believe” her happiness, because there’s no need, I can see it. Even where someone attempts to hide their emotions, the perceptive amongst us can still pick up on micro-emotions and subtle changes in their body. Again, no need to “believe”.
Whilst it certainly seems less romantic to dissect emotions, it’s still a valid exercise and allows us to more effectively treat psychological disorders.
The point of this article was to prove, logically, that the Christian God does no exist. If God is love to you, then that is your view which you’re entitled to. You’ve artfully avoided the crux of the original article though, the suggestion that the God as defined by the Christian Bible cannot exist because it is inherently a contradiction. Whoever wrote the Bible was not infallible, because we know the Bible is inaccurate, describes events that did not take place and continually contradicts itself.
The Atheist – Please understand me! I’m not fearful or living fearfully. My belief in God comforts my fears and believe me, I’m Fine!!! I don’t fear death or anything else for that matter due to my belief in God. Does that mean I can’t be startled, shocked, or even afraid of something or someone like a snake or murder, NO!!! The comfort I found in God, helps me to be able to face the worst of the world’s pain and sorrow it can offer. And I can live free, without fear, knowing and/or believing no matter what, everything will be alright in the end. Now before I believed in God, I lived my life willfully ignoring the reality of death until one day, I thought I was dead. That experience caused me to sober up to the fact that death is real, shouldn’t be ignored, and I needed to find an answer creditable to deal with it.
Now I would try to comfort all people and say, there is a Love that exist, stronger than death, able to bring you back alive again if you would only believe in it. I would tell a greiving family (believers or non-believers), that person (dead one, now gone) is now in the hands of God, God is Love, and their no better place to be. And etc (I hope you get the idea), this would be my words of comfort.
I wouldn’t tell nobody about purgatory because I don’t believe in purgatory, I never read anything about purgatory in the Bible. That’s what Cathloic’s teaches shamefully in the christian faith. I apoligze to you and the Atheist’s community for that (I’m deeply sorrow, I wish I could stop the lies but sorrowfully, lies are everywhere).
Now you’re Right, I never disagreed with PSY and I’m not disagreeing with You, Love is observable!!! Whether it be in the brain, or in couples, or in families, marriages, and etc. YES it’s true, Love can be observed. But Love must be felt and how can someone feel love unless they believe in that love??? You guys give examples trying to disprove what I say. Ya’ll are in denial!!! For example, again: We (mankind) identify what’s real with our five senses including Love. Now Love is invisble to the eyes, it’s an emotion RIGHT??? Love can’t be heard, an emotion can’t make a sound RIGHT??? Is Love something you can taste or smell? (I hope we can agree the answer is NO) But, you can feel it that’s how we now it’s REAL!!! Now in order to observe Love with our other senses and call it REAL, we must believe in it. I don’t know how a man can see a woman and call her the love of his life unless faith is involved in what he see. A woman crying for her dead child, is that not the sound of her Love grieving? would you believe she love her child according to the sound of her cries. (remember some people can fake) Taste of Love, check out our cheesecake convo. Smell of Love, basiclly on the same level of taste. Depends on the person and what they believe smell or taste good (after all, everybody will not agree). I hope you can understand my point and argument.
Now you’re Right again!!! about the article heading. So unless someone still wants to talk about the previous argument about God is Love, I’m ready to get back on track. Now there’s no contradictions from a christian’s point of veiw of the Bible. But, to a non-believer the Bible is full of contraditions. Now, who’s view of the Bible is right??? (that would be the question). HMMM…..
Now I’m a christian and I pray to God!!! To you this may seem retarded and stupid, Why, you don’t believe! (maybe I’m talking to the air or to myself with my eyes closed as far as you can tell but I’m certainly not talking to nobody, because your not blind and you don’t see anyone).
Likewise the Bible will offend all non-believers in like fashion. Without faith and/or a believing heart, you all are RIGHT to say the Bible contradicts itself. I would totally agree with you if I didn’t have faith. And I would totally agree with you if you can prove my faith in God is misplace. Faith, Love, and Hope are the three most important things needed to understanding the Life of a Christian. Love is #1 on the list because faith and hope is void & worthless without Love. But Love won’t survive without Faith and hope. You must Believe in Love and hope in it’s abilities.
I hope I may myself clear and to the point
Sorry Phairw, I still don’t get it.
But its not your fault, I think its a lack of a common point of reference. You say ‘I feel, I believe’ while I say ‘I see, I think’. Obliviously I’m not on the same channel. Its late but I will see what I can find on the internet to help me understand or relate to what you are saying.
“I am inclined to say that possibilities do exist. Even if no actual universe existed, its possibility would exist, together with the possibilities of every other possible universe, all comprising an infinite set of possibilities. . . But how can mere possibilities exist? One must be logically ruthless, and say that either there are really no possibilities or that they exist in something actual. In that case, since possibilities will always, eternally, exist, there never is absolutely nothing. There is always something, and something that can contain in itself every possibility. A definition of a ‘necessarily existing being’ is that it is a being which exists in every possible logical world (where ‘a world’ is taken to cover absolutely everything that actually exists). If, wherever anything is possible, there exists an actual being which contains that possibility, and if that actual being is the same in all possible worlds, then by definition that actual being is a necessarily existing being.
“Now all possibilities, as possibilities, are necessarily existent. That is, every possible world exists in every other possible world, precisely as a possible, but usually non-actual, world. Therefore the actual being that contains each possible world is one and the same being that contains all possible worlds. So there is one and only one actual and necessarily existing being. It will itself exist of necessity, and it will necessarily contain all possibilities in itself.”
- Keith Ward
This is a pointless exercise. Every scientific attempt to prove there is no god can just be countered by “He’s God. He made science that way. Every result we find through science was by his design”.
Science can NOT be used to disprove the existence of divine beings.
The christian bible, on the other hand, is clearly a piece of crap fiction, and all efforts should be made to enlighten people of that.
justsomedude – I’m sorry you feel that way!!! — As a christian, I joined the chat because of the title heading. And I’m allowing my faith in God to be challenged by anyone who think they can logically disproved the Christian God. No one has done so, YET !!!!!
……all they have done is shown & explained there doubt in the Christian God.
Now I would love to hear you reasoning for saying, “The christian bible, on the other hand, is clearly a piece of crap fiction” You sound like your able to “CLEARLY” show and/or explain. So here’s your chance please enlighten me, so I can stop foolishly living as a christian.
The Atheist – I like the new look of your blog site!!!! VERY NICE!!! But the pic of a Christmas Tree by my name, I don’t like. Can I send you a pic or something???? I know the christmas tree idea came from the church (Catholic church to be exact). But, I don’t support Christmas, A christmas tree, Santa Claus, and many other lies not found in the BIBLE!!! Thank You in advance.
Hi Phairw. Glad you like the new look. The picture next to your name, called an avatar, is actually randomly generated. It does look like a Christmas tree, but I think it’s supposed to be some sort of germ or something.
If you want to change the picture, you can do so at gravatar.com. It’s a completely free service that links your email address to a picture. Then, when you leave a comment on any site that supports it, the image will show up next to your name. It lets you show a consistent image across all the sites that you comment on.
Thank You very much!!!
I thought that image was a christmas tree and I don’t want you or anyone else to think of me a the common christian who supports everything taught in christian history and in our present day. I follow the Holy Bible (a library of 66 books). That’s IT!!!! If the Bible doesn’t support it, I don’t either.
Thanks again, for that website info.
haha i changed mine to Zooey Deschanel. because she’s a BABE-A-SAURUS
YOU PPL ARE GOING TO BURN IN THE LAKE OF FIRE BECAUSE GOD IS GOING TO BE SO MAD THAT YOU TRIED (BUT FAILED) TO DISPROVE THE BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GODISSOREAL – Now why would you say that??? What do you hope to accomplish with this statement??? Are you trying to scare ppl into the church??? Don’t you know the Atheist community understand already that the Bible talks about Heaven & Hell???
I’m a believer in Christ as you are. And I’m disappointed in you with this comment. You will win nobody this way!!! All this does is make the Atheist community continue to frown on the Church and Christians. PPL who consider themselves an Atheist lack understanding of REAL & TRUE LOVE!!! We will do better to help them by explaining the reality of God, instead of chasing them away from the church with statement such as your. I hope you will reconsider your comment because now is not the time or place for this statement. Okay!!!
Glad you are a believer in Christ, and I pray God give you understanding and wisdom to win other for God.
Hmmmm….. God DOES exist. He is not the “God” we know of but a person. I have a theory that proves existence of a “God” but, This is not the “christian God” but another power. Let’s start from the moment the world began. After that, our universe goes through 4 billion years. Then, suddenly, Christianity appeared! Why does it just pop up? The “BIBLE” said that the inspiration comes from John the baptist. Does it sound weird? 1 person influenced another which in the long run influenced more than 1 billion people. One person with some helpers? No. It is larger than that. This is because Jesus is a TIME TRAVELER. God is THE FIRST TIME TRAVELER IN HISTORY. I will explain this more if I had the time but I don’t have. But I will Explain more.
The Atheist – I’m glad you seem to have finally accepted the existence of a “Almighty God”. GOOD!!! Now you just need a better understand about GOD.
So now, If you truly believe in the existence of God, ARE YOU STILL An ATHEIST???? because if so, WHY & HOW when, Atheism whole existence is based on, NON belief in the existence of GOD?
Phairw – I’m afraid that wasn’t me, but rather someone pretending to be me. Unfortunately, theists have to resort to dishonesty, lies and deception to try and get their points across. It’s a real shame.
god otherwise known as Lysergic acid diethylamide
this conversation will never end, so i say to each their own
PhairW
Science knows much about why and how we love. It typically asks questions religions rarely if ever do, which is why science knows and will always know far more about every human emotion – love included – than religion will ever be able to explain or fully appreciate beyond a childlike understanding. Lucky for religion, you can always learn from science. Sadly, science can learn nothing from the irrationality of religion save information regarding its dysfunctions.
Just for some interesting reading, here’s an article at New Scientist magazine online. I’m certain a search on “scientific explanation for love” will get you much more.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9981-instant-expert-love.html?full=true
I disagree with your premise, sir! Smart Christians don’t believe that the Bible that we have is infallible.
I don’t believe in God but this argument is weak and stupid and makes illogical assumptions and jumps, not unlike arguments proving the existence of God. Firstly one of the main premises of your argument is a complete falsehood. The Bible is not ‘the true word of God’ and I would say that only the most ignorant of Christians would claim that it was. The Bible is an account written by others and even that has been subject to thousands of years worth of change and alteration. This argument may apply to religious texts like the Qu’ran which claim to have been directly written by God, but not the Bible. Secondly, because the Bible is incorrect does not prove the non-existence of God. As I mentioned the message may have been changed and perverted over time but thats not to say that God isn’t still around, sitting on a cloud shaking his head. Just because there is a typo on the box, doesn’t mean that its empty. Also, if you are admitting that there are inaccuracies in the Bible, why does it necessarily have to be true that God is infallible? Could this not be the one inaccuracy that presupposes all the other inaccuracies?
In conclusion, I don’t think it is particularly helpful to sit around picking holes in the Bible because at the end of the day a monkey could do that. I also don’t think it is particularly helpful to devote yourself to an ancient scripture which history proves has been continually and strategically edited and censured of thousands of years for hundreds of strange and sinister reasons but at the end of the day you can’t prove the existence if God right or wrong (although the Bible is dead wrong)and to claim you have is both arrogant and stupid.
Hughbert – I don’t know who you are directing your comment to….? But, I’ll answer anyhow.
I understand the Bible was written by men and also translated by men. And I understand this leave plenty of room for errors over the many years. I agree 100%!!! But yet and still I believe the Bible is the written Word of God How we got the Bible is important but what is written is more important.
Now it is written God is Love!!! So I ask you, true or false??? If false, explain Okay!!! Then I would be able to see the errors better. If God doesn’t exists, then tell me how LOVE isn’t real??? This is what Christians believe or should believe.
Now, I’m sorry you have a problem with individuals such as I, that believe that the Bible is God’s infallible Word. But, that’s your problem. The reasons you stated in your comment is not why I say the Bible is infallible. I believe the Bible is infallible because of the meaning of the words written therein. So I’ll say it again, it is written in the Bible that God is Love!!! Here’s your chance to prove the Bible fallible. Just prove this Bible written statement wrong.
“Chris Sanford – I hope you realize the absurdity of your argument. Do you believe Harry Potter is real because it gives an accurate representation of an English housing estate? There are, of course, historically accurate parts of the Bible, but they aren’t the contentious parts. There’s absolutely no proof for any of the so-called miracles, any proof of Jesus as a person ever existing (the first record comes a few hundred years after his supposed death, which leaves plenty of time for the fable to spread into common culture. If he was a real person, you’d expect some record of his existence at the time he was alive, there is none) nor any proof of any Gods. Ever. Anywhere. As for the references to Jesus being made before he was supposedly alive, perhaps they came from the numerous other prophets and deities in the region that shared the same basic story as the Christian Jesus (born of a virgin, resurrected, performed miracles etc.). The stories had been circulated for centuries before the period in which Jesus was supposedly born, except they were used by different religions. The Christian story is far from original.”
Then what are you suggesting that someone actually took their sweet time fabricated all the prophecies from the Old Testement regarding Jesus, waited a couple hundred years and I dunno maybe he left a post it note for some other guy to fabricate the story of Jesus and make every prophecy mentioned about Jesus in the old testement to coincide with the actual account of Jesus in the New testement? I dunno you seem like a “BRIGHT” individual so how about you give us a couple more intelligent comebacks than perhaps it was a fable passed around the region. So you’re expecting Christians to believe that someone took EVERY prophecy in the Bible regarding Jesus and fabricated EVERY prophecy into the account of Jesus ministry, which you think was a was merely a story passed down from other PAGAN religions?
Or are you attempting to say that the account of Jesus life in the New testement from 4 different authors were actually fables from the distant past passed down from pagan religions and magically showed up in what we call the Bible today, yah ok.
Yes, clearly it’s absurd to suggest that someone wrote a story, about the past. That’s never happened.
There are problems with the Bible. We know that there are numerous religions that pre-date Christianity and the Bible that essentially contain many of the same elements. Jesus’s story, in particular, seems heavily borrowed from pre-existing stories (for example Horus, even though parts of the similarity are debated. There are so many others that the debate seems almost pointless).
So given that, what’s more likely. The fables that had already been passed down through multiple generations (after all, the religions that contain the same aspects are fairly spread out, in a historical context), simply being updated to the current environment. – OR – Your wonderful creator God deciding that he liked these stories so much that he decided to “do a remake” of his own, and send his only son to earth to walk in the shadow of many religious icons that had gone before him?
Either your God is very unimaginative, or he doesn’t exist.
The bible contains self contradictory passages and very silly things (four legged insects, cud chewing rabbits, etc.). However, this attack upon the self contradictory bible only dismantles biblical literalists. However, there are some bigger and nicely simple logical contradictions as well, first, the problem of evil. ‘If god has the power to stop evil and does not want to, he is not omnibenevolent. If god wants to stop evil but does not have the power, he is not omnipotent.’ There is also the stone paradox which takes down most definitions of omnipotence. ‘Can god create a stone so big he can not lift it?’ If he can, then there is something he cannot do (lift the stone). If he can’t, there is something he cannot do (create said stone).
You obviously have no knowledge of the bible whatsoever, you simply not knowing what God’s plan for us is a testement for that.
What did you think Revelation was all about? Seriously where did you get that “fact” that God couldn’t Destroy Evil and that he didn’t want to, you have some kind of damage to read the Bible which I’m pretty sure you didn’t and come to that Conclusion when it’s Clearly stated in the Bible that Sinners will be destroyed along with Sin itself as stated in Revelation Chapter 20.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=20&v=1&t=NKJV
and oh damn you really got God with that paradox there, it’s funny how humans try to limit God with their own standards, their own limitations, amusing really.
It’s not humans trying to limit God, much like this article it’s just humans trying to understand what other humans believe a God is. It’s a valid pursuit, and even theists should try and understand their view of their God (after all, religion is a very personal thing, with many subscribers to the same religion having slightly different views of the same deity).
I’ve heard a similar theoretical arguments that discuss whether God is capable of killing himself, or whether God is capable of creating another being of equal power and prominence. I won’t go into detail here, because cathy has inspired me to write a post about it.
To everyone who has left comments since my last comment — I don’t know why you guys are trying so hard to downplay the Bible. You simply can’t!!! Your negative comments about Bible is only creditable to people who are Atheist as you are. Now I can say things postive about the Bible but that’s only creditable to people who believe as I do. Okay! So let stop the back and forth comments which only displays our opinions and belief, which is already known.
Now, this is not Bible study!!! And I refuse to explain the Bible to non-believers because you don’t believe. The Bible is for believers not non-believers. But what I can talk to non-believers about (whether he or she is a theist or atheist)is who/what is God. And as I have said time and time again, GOD is LOVE!!! God is the Almighty Creator and God is Love. If you don’t understand I will gladly explain. If you do understand then logically disprove this statement. I’m all ears!!!
Most of you already have your own understanding of the Bible as I do. But the question is who is right??? So let start with the basic princples of God (according to scripture). God is: Almighty; The creator of life; a spirit called the Holy Ghost; A Father in heaven; A born Son of heaven; One God Almighty; man was made in the image and likeness of God; and last but not least God is LOVE.
Now before you guys reply with your common comments of disbelief against religion(s), consider this: The first religion (or way of life) in the world is F.A.M.I.L.Y….., And for every family to be real it must have a Father, a child, and love. This is the first religion and will be the last. This religion is the true religion and shall live forever by the power of GOD.
Those not with us are against us. – Luke 11:23 NIV
The Big Lie of the Big-3 Monster-theisms:
Skeptics cannot undermine beliefs which require spiritual insight to believe!
Xianity cannot be refuted; it can only be dismantled.
The Big Lie exemplifies a classic logical failure called an “immunizing strategy.” Only a believer can understand another believer’s beliefs. It is a form of begging the question — presupposing without proof the very point at issue.
An immunizing strategy amounts to deflecting away every request for reasoning outside the charmed circle of language which only a believer could use.
But, one pays dearly when immunizing a belief from criticism. It cuts off rational communication. The immunizer gives up the right to be classed as a “reasonable person” by any logical or semantic criterion.
You cannot respond rationally to critics by saying that only those who are with me can understand what I have to say. There must be some starting point in a discourse common to believer and to critic. Otherwise, there’s nothing that can be talked about.
Now you know why the xian “conversion” sales job has always begun with purportedly “absurd” or “paradoxical” claims to induce belief. And to a rational ancient Greek nothing was more conceptually contradictory than a “god on a cross.”
The de-deification of culture (including the sciences) must be our task for the next 100 years.
the anti-supernaturalist
Hello anti_supernaturalist
Your comment was a clever one, I must say!
The Big Lie, lol… how is it a lie??? prove it!!! Your previous comment doesn’t prove it, it just states your having a problem believing it. And gives a clever theory called the “immunizing strategy” as to part of your problem with the Big Lie.
Also, “god on a cross”. I would have used a capital “G” for god but anyhow, that’s right, I do believe that. See, me and you understand one of the main points of the Bible. But, our belief system puts us on different sides. Now I see no point in explaining “God on the cross”, when you don’t even believe their is a GOD!!! Why should I go deep into explaining the cross when first you must believe their is a God??? A baby has to crawl before it can walk, right???
Check out some of my previous comments… I said to the Atheist community time and time again GOD is LOVE and gave (I believe) good understand or explanation to my statement. If you believe LOVE is real, then you should believe God is real. If you don’t believe in God than you don’t believe in Love (What a shame, too bad and so sad). It was LOVE/GOD that created all of life. It’s no wonder (to me) why all of life is dying, We don’t know nor do we believe in Love/God as we should. And the real sad part for mankind is, we were made in the image of LOVE/GOD. So we are suppose to know, understand, and believe in Love while reaping all the benefits of doing so.
So first, let talk about God/Love. Is God real or not??? Prove God isn’t real. If you have this proof (of no God) please share. My proof of God is pure love. Someone who loves us made the sun and knew we would need it before we realized we did ourselves. Someone made trees and caused fruits to grow for us to eat. Someone knew we needed air to breath and so many other things I can say. We all were born due to the process of LOVE. All the credit and glory belongs to Love, and the credit and glory belongs to God.