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	<title>Comments on: Logical Challenges to a Deity&#039;s Existence (The Omnipotence Paradox)</title>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1962</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2011 21:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s an incredibly fun thing to do to thing of such things with mathematics.


If one takes &quot;God is omnipotent&quot; as an axiom, then, as you&#039;ve shown, God can do something that is contradictory to some other thing that he can do.

Since we have a contradiction trivialism follows, i.e. if a Christian takes &quot;God is omnipotent,&quot; then he is also implying that his god doesn&#039;t even exist, because trivialism means everything is true.

If we take an axiom as &quot;God is omniscient,&quot; and say S is the set of all God knows, then God, who knows everything, must also know in all the ways in which the things he knows are related to each other, and he must know the relations of all that he knows the relations of all that he knows, ad infinitum.
In math we&#039;d say S maps to P(S), P(S) maps to P(P(S))...

But a map to a single power set (i.e. to P(S)) has a different cardinality that the set S.  So if &quot;God is omniscient,&quot; then he knows more than he knows, which is a contradiction, and once again everything in the world is now true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an incredibly fun thing to do to thing of such things with mathematics.</p>
<p>If one takes &#8220;God is omnipotent&#8221; as an axiom, then, as you&#8217;ve shown, God can do something that is contradictory to some other thing that he can do.</p>
<p>Since we have a contradiction trivialism follows, i.e. if a Christian takes &#8220;God is omnipotent,&#8221; then he is also implying that his god doesn&#8217;t even exist, because trivialism means everything is true.</p>
<p>If we take an axiom as &#8220;God is omniscient,&#8221; and say S is the set of all God knows, then God, who knows everything, must also know in all the ways in which the things he knows are related to each other, and he must know the relations of all that he knows the relations of all that he knows, ad infinitum.<br />
In math we&#8217;d say S maps to P(S), P(S) maps to P(P(S))&#8230;</p>
<p>But a map to a single power set (i.e. to P(S)) has a different cardinality that the set S.  So if &#8220;God is omniscient,&#8221; then he knows more than he knows, which is a contradiction, and once again everything in the world is now true.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jesus freak</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1941</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesus freak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2011 01:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1941</guid>
		<description>yes, He can create a stone He can&#039;t lift.  He could make it smaller then lift it, and vice versa.  And there ARE limits to being all-powerful.  That&#039;s WHY there&#039;s sin in the first place.  It&#039;s due to the fact that not even an ALLPOWERFUL BEING could make a COMPUTER LOVE HIM{us without free will}.  An allpowerful being couldn&#039;t do that, and still be all-powerful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, He can create a stone He can&#8217;t lift.  He could make it smaller then lift it, and vice versa.  And there ARE limits to being all-powerful.  That&#8217;s WHY there&#8217;s sin in the first place.  It&#8217;s due to the fact that not even an ALLPOWERFUL BEING could make a COMPUTER LOVE HIM{us without free will}.  An allpowerful being couldn&#8217;t do that, and still be all-powerful.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1926</link>
		<dc:creator>joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1926</guid>
		<description>If god is perfect and everything is possible to him, could he create something more powerful than himself? 

Ans: If God is perfect and is all powerful he could create something more perfect than perfect and more powerful than powerful which would be total absence of perfection thus no imperfection and total abscene of power thus no powerless or powerful; and the only thing which has these is NOTHING!

Which brings in another paradox:

Can God create NOTHING?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If god is perfect and everything is possible to him, could he create something more powerful than himself? </p>
<p>Ans: If God is perfect and is all powerful he could create something more perfect than perfect and more powerful than powerful which would be total absence of perfection thus no imperfection and total abscene of power thus no powerless or powerful; and the only thing which has these is NOTHING!</p>
<p>Which brings in another paradox:</p>
<p>Can God create NOTHING?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: al ghazaly</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1492</link>
		<dc:creator>al ghazaly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 06:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1492</guid>
		<description>this rough translation from malay to english 

No one know when the beginning of human&#039;s early history questioning god concept. Perhaps that history as long as own the man&#039;screation history age. Philosopher such as Xenophanes (c570 - ?475 BC)which preceded own Socrates have said before: “If the horse can draw,certainly he will be drawn god they equine”. In fact god issue had held long may be before existence philosophical knowledge more.
However, a stands to reason, every religion have faith concept and different principles in explaining matter on god, although basically it shall get back to admit at with the existence of an entity that Most powerful arrange their lifestyle.
 This article carried to explain a little bit issue and god concept from Islamic views and how Islam answering question that often proposed byphilosopher from time to time. This issue looks easy. However, the answer differ according to, as I mentioned previously, understanding to god concept according to human view. Two issues that often revolve in philosopher debate world is:
1.	If God that make us, so whom on the other hand that make God?
2.	If the God The Mighty entity, can He make a stone that he himself cannot lift up? If can be and He cannot list it up, He weak because cannot lift up that stone. If He cannot make stone like that , He had also weekend because He cannot create stone that not lifted. In other words,according to this philosopher, the God weak.
Explanation to this issue would just carried from Islamic point of view and not from different religion. So, before any attempt answering question this carried out, were important for us see god concept that carried by Islam to the follower.
 
God concept in islam
 
Islamic theology believe that everything in sky and this earth is Allah&#039;s creation object. Allah is inventor (al Khalik) and oyher than Him was the subject that coined (creature), including sky and earth include space,time, matter and anything beyond this realm are also creation.
 
Issue and God-Creature answer can be concluded (among others) as follows:
S: What God?
J: Entity that does not depend on the creature. It without early and end
S: What is creature?
 J: Entity which depends with the God and mutually also depends with different creature.
 
So contrasts with ideology some Christian religion or other religion which said that God “stay” in universe and all so this nature static without having beginning and ending, such as God&#039;s fact also, Islamic teach faith that Allah not “life” in universe or this world environment. All, including universe is creature His creation and He not bounding to own His creation&#039;s subject.
This nature is creature with evidence, among other, from surah al Anbiya&#039;sentence 16 and sentence 19:
 
“And We noti create sky and earth and all that there is between both with fooling” (al Anbiya&#039; : 16)
And belonging to His all that were in sky and on earth.” (al Anbiya&#039; : 19)
 
This proven by modern theory of science now include discovery of formula  general relativity Einstein (although he who try to deny one&#039;s own discovery formula because the faith state this nature static – viz do not start andended) and mathematician, David Hilbert which said that time and the space not separate with universe and every creature in him.
It associated closely and mutually need. Mathematical model generalrelatitvity this predict will existence of control and ending for universe,space and present. This proven by Roger Penrose scientist and Stephen Hawking through universe survey and arrangement based on formula general relativity Einstein.
This lump sum cancel universe&#039;s early theory Euclid that write Elementsbook of Geometry around 300 this BC Teori also abolished theoryruangmasa Isacc Newton that aged more 200 years in the book Principia Mathematica that produced in year 1687. Among different Newton say thattime and universe is entity that nothing beginning and are going to remain forever.
 
his discovery bring scientist such as Hawking to name beginning of the universe as Big Bang and it would be ending with Big Crunch wherewhole universe, star, planets, astroid and so on this are going to stop fromexpand and will meet again, parallel to doomsday concept to Muslims based on following sentence:
“When sun is rolled. When star fall. When mountainous beterbangan such as mirage” (At Takwir : 1-3) (see also different surah surah fromconstituent 30 Alcoran)
Big Bang&#039;s theory states that before occurence of that big bang, space and time (spacetime) like available today not and not yet exist. Only when occurence of that explosion, new the beginning of space-time and also all physics law, chemical, biological and so on which eventually manage this universe.
 
This discovery parallel to Allah sentence swt that sound: 
 
&quot;And what the infidel do not see the sky and the earth formerly grafted solid (In language arabnya mentioned ratq and in the sciencelanguage called singularity or union) and then We break secondly (In language arabnya mentioned fatq or in the science language Big Bang)” (Al Anbiya&#039; 21:30).
 
Hereby, in Islam, Islamic people&#039;s faith states that time and the space is Allah&#039;s creature swt. When something the is Allah&#039;s creature, Allah could not become subject or need that creature because it outside logic or lawthat own Allah fixed viz – Al Khalik cannot depend on creature (see Godmeaning above). This is because, if Al Khalik depends on creature, forexample it “life” in space frame and time, thus it no longer qualify called al Khalik, instead of becoming weak creature because it need something(see creature meaning above).
 
 
What evidence which states that the time is even Allah&#039;s creature and Allah uncommitted to him? This based on following sentence:
 
For time. Indeed man in loss. ( Al Asr: 1-2)
 
This sentence were consistent with different sentence, that explain thatAllah swear with His creation creature. This show that the time is even creature that Allah create for purpose part of from Allah programme oncreation of nature. This parallel to theory of science such as that was explained above that time-was creature that have beginning and ending which because concept “God does not require creature” mentioned previously altogether prove that God uncommitted on time.
 
Human mind and concept spacetime
 
The real human mind very limited. Limited with meaning said limited byspace frame and time. No man can work something out that outside space and time. If alleged to we something the incident happen,immediate our mind will reasoned issue where and when. We will imagine that condition of event based on space frame and time.
 
But if we say that world war to two occurred not in year 1942, not before him and not after him, our mind would be said – Illogical! Thus we sayimpossible for it happen. But the news presenter say , it happen! So ourmind cannot accept that incident because it does not happen in frame available time.
 
Same with space. We say is one apel that staying not in box, also not
outside of the box. But it there is. So our mind are going to die there and say illogical. Where possible something had not been in space frame!
 
So the description in think will Allah nutrient swt. space-time is like a piece of paper that tabled. From one end to different end, that time proverband among them would be space which house us. Allah swt on the other hand outside framework space and time that. So our mind will not arrive to think on His nutrient. But does not mean He does not exist because own science prove that exist state which had no space and time.
 
 
Answering question philosopher:
 
From our this concept can drafting answer for questions above. Firstly, to get correct answer and right, own the question necessary correct andright. To get question that logic, own the question necessary drafted so that it heading towards to answer that logic. On the other hand both issues this although in the language configuration correct, but in terms of logic it actually incorrect. We will study profoundly under later.
 
We will study this question based on god concept from view of the Islamic people that was explained before this. Were important for us to do so because, as I described previously, god concept something the religion differs between each other. We will see whether this question fulfill logic itself or it should be earmarked because it illogical and troubled.Troubled question and illogical will not get giving answer that right and logic. That the logic.
 
First question: Whom that make God?
 
S: If God that make us, so whom on the other hand that make God?
J: Answering question this, first we say that when the the thinker try placing equivalent God with his different His&#039;s creature actually have contravened and disorganized principle and &#039;law&#039; god-creature such as that have stated before this. We say if the God already ranks with different His&#039;screature – viz have early and end so does it still God?
 
The meaning here, because creature&#039;s characteristic have early andending or even the least it have early creation, so qualified it dubbed as creature. Such as that agreed that the God not creature, so God has no creature&#039;s characteristic viz among them have early and end. Immediately the God not created make issue “Who that make God” to be impossible.God when take creature feature, it is no more God in principle framework that had we spread out previously.
 
Yet arise again issue:  
S: So how have God if He not created?
 
J: This issue also answered with what we mention previously that God lives at metaphysics framework and not depends on space-time and physics law / biological / creature chemistry. This is because God that subject or depends on space-time or physics law just now unfit become God and only fit to be creature immediately make it is not god. So illogical, if he god that not beginning and ended but created and then can become God! It protest own the logic theory.
 
God fact no need created for He there is parallel to concept that was explained that He uncommitted to space and time and also physics law /biological / chemical make He no need inventor to be. Only that binds with space-time only that need creator. Furthermore, if possible exist a state which nothing space-time until human beings themselves cannot think of state just now, but it exist like proven by science, cooking cannot exist an entity that not beginning and not ended this.
 
Lastly, this issue also brittle because it wrong from its logic itself. Say us given statement: 
 
“Ali has break stone that could not be destroyed.”
 
Although this statement correct in terms of the language, but in terms of the logic it illogical and unreasonable. How stone that could not be destroyed, was demolished? Fact that it has been devastated by Ali have made stone that could not be destroyed just now into stone that may be destroyed. Thus it not stone that could not be destroyed! It such asstatement, bird flying. Aircraft flying. So aircraft is bird!. Correct in terms of language, but wrong in terms of the logic.
 
In Conclusion:
 
This issue wrong because it just like we ask after: Whom that make God which not creature and has no creator?
Premise 1: Only creature that created by inventor Premise 
2: God not creature Conclusion: So God nothing His inventor / no need inventor.
 
Second question: Lift stone
 
S: “If the God The Mighty entity, can he make a mile that he himself cannot pick up him? If can be and he cannot pick up him, he weak because cannot pick up that stone. If he cannot make stone like that , he had also weekend because he cannot create stone that not lifted. In other words, according to this philosopher, the God, ways of how even were weak.”
 
J: This long issue actually short only. It can conclude as: “…can he (God) make a mile that he himself cannot pick up him?”
 
As I state previously, this issue seems true from the language angle, but not cater to law logika is wanted itself by the person who ask question. Secondly, explanation on this matter will be seen from Islamic faith teology.
 
This issue can be divided two fractions following:
 
1.	Can God make one stone…
2.	That he not able to lift him?
 
First break cater to logic framework and improper lengthened theexplanation. Certainly God able to create stone because the stone either from the creation. But when reach in second phrase, many which willincurving. Stone (His creation) own God not able to lift him?
 
As I state previously, it seems true, but does not necessarily it logic. It also perceived logic but does not necessarily it true.
 
First, God matter lift stone will not and cannot happen although own Godrequire. This because it would contradictory with physics law that createdpersonally by Allah swt. The meaning here, was explained before this that God uncommitted with space-time or law that arrange space-time that. With questioning whether God able or not raise that stone, we have tie God with physics law, viz mass subject and that stone matter.
Mean, when God already subjugated with the creature law, we had wrenched God inside framework space-time. This make principle that creator cannot subject to that created just now just now were downed. It become impossible.
 
Secondly, to see from different aspect, God is metaphysics entity that uncommitted in physics and cannot, by the principle also, tied to physics matter. Meanwhile, process lift stone is physics process that can not must be made in realm or own the physical world framework.
 
Both things this impossible to happen. Impossible to God to &#039;enter&#039; intocreature world to lift stone like impossible for generation physics law creature stone just now can hold in metaphysical world. So, if two entities this can not be united and happen, by itself this incident impossible it happened and by itself this issue were wrong and fall.
 
Here does not arise issue whether the God can or not lift stone, but what questioned is own the question truth in facing human mind&#039;s logical issue. In other words, own the issue wrong from logic aspect and physics arrangement and mathematics. Not God cannot come into creature world and exempt law of nature (physics, logic, chemical, biological, and such)coined own His, but by doing so, he confused law of nature that created His. When everything already rout, so the nature were destroy. When nature were destroy so do human&#039;s logical law. this question will not arise early him. This  Allah&#039;s intelligence swt.
 
Conclusion Premise 1: God bound with His creation
Premise 2: Time, space, physics law is His creation
Premise 3: Lift stone is physics law, perpetrated in space and time
Conclusion: Determine whether God can or not lift stone will be tying God to the creation. Breach the logic law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this rough translation from malay to english </p>
<p>No one know when the beginning of human&#8217;s early history questioning god concept. Perhaps that history as long as own the man&#8217;screation history age. Philosopher such as Xenophanes (c570 &#8211; ?475 BC)which preceded own Socrates have said before: “If the horse can draw,certainly he will be drawn god they equine”. In fact god issue had held long may be before existence philosophical knowledge more.<br />
However, a stands to reason, every religion have faith concept and different principles in explaining matter on god, although basically it shall get back to admit at with the existence of an entity that Most powerful arrange their lifestyle.<br />
 This article carried to explain a little bit issue and god concept from Islamic views and how Islam answering question that often proposed byphilosopher from time to time. This issue looks easy. However, the answer differ according to, as I mentioned previously, understanding to god concept according to human view. Two issues that often revolve in philosopher debate world is:<br />
1.	If God that make us, so whom on the other hand that make God?<br />
2.	If the God The Mighty entity, can He make a stone that he himself cannot lift up? If can be and He cannot list it up, He weak because cannot lift up that stone. If He cannot make stone like that , He had also weekend because He cannot create stone that not lifted. In other words,according to this philosopher, the God weak.<br />
Explanation to this issue would just carried from Islamic point of view and not from different religion. So, before any attempt answering question this carried out, were important for us see god concept that carried by Islam to the follower.</p>
<p>God concept in islam</p>
<p>Islamic theology believe that everything in sky and this earth is Allah&#8217;s creation object. Allah is inventor (al Khalik) and oyher than Him was the subject that coined (creature), including sky and earth include space,time, matter and anything beyond this realm are also creation.</p>
<p>Issue and God-Creature answer can be concluded (among others) as follows:<br />
S: What God?<br />
J: Entity that does not depend on the creature. It without early and end<br />
S: What is creature?<br />
 J: Entity which depends with the God and mutually also depends with different creature.</p>
<p>So contrasts with ideology some Christian religion or other religion which said that God “stay” in universe and all so this nature static without having beginning and ending, such as God&#8217;s fact also, Islamic teach faith that Allah not “life” in universe or this world environment. All, including universe is creature His creation and He not bounding to own His creation&#8217;s subject.<br />
This nature is creature with evidence, among other, from surah al Anbiya&#8217;sentence 16 and sentence 19:</p>
<p>“And We noti create sky and earth and all that there is between both with fooling” (al Anbiya&#8217; : 16)<br />
And belonging to His all that were in sky and on earth.” (al Anbiya&#8217; : 19)</p>
<p>This proven by modern theory of science now include discovery of formula  general relativity Einstein (although he who try to deny one&#8217;s own discovery formula because the faith state this nature static – viz do not start andended) and mathematician, David Hilbert which said that time and the space not separate with universe and every creature in him.<br />
It associated closely and mutually need. Mathematical model generalrelatitvity this predict will existence of control and ending for universe,space and present. This proven by Roger Penrose scientist and Stephen Hawking through universe survey and arrangement based on formula general relativity Einstein.<br />
This lump sum cancel universe&#8217;s early theory Euclid that write Elementsbook of Geometry around 300 this BC Teori also abolished theoryruangmasa Isacc Newton that aged more 200 years in the book Principia Mathematica that produced in year 1687. Among different Newton say thattime and universe is entity that nothing beginning and are going to remain forever.</p>
<p>his discovery bring scientist such as Hawking to name beginning of the universe as Big Bang and it would be ending with Big Crunch wherewhole universe, star, planets, astroid and so on this are going to stop fromexpand and will meet again, parallel to doomsday concept to Muslims based on following sentence:<br />
“When sun is rolled. When star fall. When mountainous beterbangan such as mirage” (At Takwir : 1-3) (see also different surah surah fromconstituent 30 Alcoran)<br />
Big Bang&#8217;s theory states that before occurence of that big bang, space and time (spacetime) like available today not and not yet exist. Only when occurence of that explosion, new the beginning of space-time and also all physics law, chemical, biological and so on which eventually manage this universe.</p>
<p>This discovery parallel to Allah sentence swt that sound: </p>
<p>&#8220;And what the infidel do not see the sky and the earth formerly grafted solid (In language arabnya mentioned ratq and in the sciencelanguage called singularity or union) and then We break secondly (In language arabnya mentioned fatq or in the science language Big Bang)” (Al Anbiya&#8217; 21:30).</p>
<p>Hereby, in Islam, Islamic people&#8217;s faith states that time and the space is Allah&#8217;s creature swt. When something the is Allah&#8217;s creature, Allah could not become subject or need that creature because it outside logic or lawthat own Allah fixed viz – Al Khalik cannot depend on creature (see Godmeaning above). This is because, if Al Khalik depends on creature, forexample it “life” in space frame and time, thus it no longer qualify called al Khalik, instead of becoming weak creature because it need something(see creature meaning above).</p>
<p>What evidence which states that the time is even Allah&#8217;s creature and Allah uncommitted to him? This based on following sentence:</p>
<p>For time. Indeed man in loss. ( Al Asr: 1-2)</p>
<p>This sentence were consistent with different sentence, that explain thatAllah swear with His creation creature. This show that the time is even creature that Allah create for purpose part of from Allah programme oncreation of nature. This parallel to theory of science such as that was explained above that time-was creature that have beginning and ending which because concept “God does not require creature” mentioned previously altogether prove that God uncommitted on time.</p>
<p>Human mind and concept spacetime</p>
<p>The real human mind very limited. Limited with meaning said limited byspace frame and time. No man can work something out that outside space and time. If alleged to we something the incident happen,immediate our mind will reasoned issue where and when. We will imagine that condition of event based on space frame and time.</p>
<p>But if we say that world war to two occurred not in year 1942, not before him and not after him, our mind would be said – Illogical! Thus we sayimpossible for it happen. But the news presenter say , it happen! So ourmind cannot accept that incident because it does not happen in frame available time.</p>
<p>Same with space. We say is one apel that staying not in box, also not<br />
outside of the box. But it there is. So our mind are going to die there and say illogical. Where possible something had not been in space frame!</p>
<p>So the description in think will Allah nutrient swt. space-time is like a piece of paper that tabled. From one end to different end, that time proverband among them would be space which house us. Allah swt on the other hand outside framework space and time that. So our mind will not arrive to think on His nutrient. But does not mean He does not exist because own science prove that exist state which had no space and time.</p>
<p>Answering question philosopher:</p>
<p>From our this concept can drafting answer for questions above. Firstly, to get correct answer and right, own the question necessary correct andright. To get question that logic, own the question necessary drafted so that it heading towards to answer that logic. On the other hand both issues this although in the language configuration correct, but in terms of logic it actually incorrect. We will study profoundly under later.</p>
<p>We will study this question based on god concept from view of the Islamic people that was explained before this. Were important for us to do so because, as I described previously, god concept something the religion differs between each other. We will see whether this question fulfill logic itself or it should be earmarked because it illogical and troubled.Troubled question and illogical will not get giving answer that right and logic. That the logic.</p>
<p>First question: Whom that make God?</p>
<p>S: If God that make us, so whom on the other hand that make God?<br />
J: Answering question this, first we say that when the the thinker try placing equivalent God with his different His&#8217;s creature actually have contravened and disorganized principle and &#8216;law&#8217; god-creature such as that have stated before this. We say if the God already ranks with different His&#8217;screature – viz have early and end so does it still God?</p>
<p>The meaning here, because creature&#8217;s characteristic have early andending or even the least it have early creation, so qualified it dubbed as creature. Such as that agreed that the God not creature, so God has no creature&#8217;s characteristic viz among them have early and end. Immediately the God not created make issue “Who that make God” to be impossible.God when take creature feature, it is no more God in principle framework that had we spread out previously.</p>
<p>Yet arise again issue:<br />
S: So how have God if He not created?</p>
<p>J: This issue also answered with what we mention previously that God lives at metaphysics framework and not depends on space-time and physics law / biological / creature chemistry. This is because God that subject or depends on space-time or physics law just now unfit become God and only fit to be creature immediately make it is not god. So illogical, if he god that not beginning and ended but created and then can become God! It protest own the logic theory.</p>
<p>God fact no need created for He there is parallel to concept that was explained that He uncommitted to space and time and also physics law /biological / chemical make He no need inventor to be. Only that binds with space-time only that need creator. Furthermore, if possible exist a state which nothing space-time until human beings themselves cannot think of state just now, but it exist like proven by science, cooking cannot exist an entity that not beginning and not ended this.</p>
<p>Lastly, this issue also brittle because it wrong from its logic itself. Say us given statement: </p>
<p>“Ali has break stone that could not be destroyed.”</p>
<p>Although this statement correct in terms of the language, but in terms of the logic it illogical and unreasonable. How stone that could not be destroyed, was demolished? Fact that it has been devastated by Ali have made stone that could not be destroyed just now into stone that may be destroyed. Thus it not stone that could not be destroyed! It such asstatement, bird flying. Aircraft flying. So aircraft is bird!. Correct in terms of language, but wrong in terms of the logic.</p>
<p>In Conclusion:</p>
<p>This issue wrong because it just like we ask after: Whom that make God which not creature and has no creator?<br />
Premise 1: Only creature that created by inventor Premise<br />
2: God not creature Conclusion: So God nothing His inventor / no need inventor.</p>
<p>Second question: Lift stone</p>
<p>S: “If the God The Mighty entity, can he make a mile that he himself cannot pick up him? If can be and he cannot pick up him, he weak because cannot pick up that stone. If he cannot make stone like that , he had also weekend because he cannot create stone that not lifted. In other words, according to this philosopher, the God, ways of how even were weak.”</p>
<p>J: This long issue actually short only. It can conclude as: “…can he (God) make a mile that he himself cannot pick up him?”</p>
<p>As I state previously, this issue seems true from the language angle, but not cater to law logika is wanted itself by the person who ask question. Secondly, explanation on this matter will be seen from Islamic faith teology.</p>
<p>This issue can be divided two fractions following:</p>
<p>1.	Can God make one stone…<br />
2.	That he not able to lift him?</p>
<p>First break cater to logic framework and improper lengthened theexplanation. Certainly God able to create stone because the stone either from the creation. But when reach in second phrase, many which willincurving. Stone (His creation) own God not able to lift him?</p>
<p>As I state previously, it seems true, but does not necessarily it logic. It also perceived logic but does not necessarily it true.</p>
<p>First, God matter lift stone will not and cannot happen although own Godrequire. This because it would contradictory with physics law that createdpersonally by Allah swt. The meaning here, was explained before this that God uncommitted with space-time or law that arrange space-time that. With questioning whether God able or not raise that stone, we have tie God with physics law, viz mass subject and that stone matter.<br />
Mean, when God already subjugated with the creature law, we had wrenched God inside framework space-time. This make principle that creator cannot subject to that created just now just now were downed. It become impossible.</p>
<p>Secondly, to see from different aspect, God is metaphysics entity that uncommitted in physics and cannot, by the principle also, tied to physics matter. Meanwhile, process lift stone is physics process that can not must be made in realm or own the physical world framework.</p>
<p>Both things this impossible to happen. Impossible to God to &#8216;enter&#8217; intocreature world to lift stone like impossible for generation physics law creature stone just now can hold in metaphysical world. So, if two entities this can not be united and happen, by itself this incident impossible it happened and by itself this issue were wrong and fall.</p>
<p>Here does not arise issue whether the God can or not lift stone, but what questioned is own the question truth in facing human mind&#8217;s logical issue. In other words, own the issue wrong from logic aspect and physics arrangement and mathematics. Not God cannot come into creature world and exempt law of nature (physics, logic, chemical, biological, and such)coined own His, but by doing so, he confused law of nature that created His. When everything already rout, so the nature were destroy. When nature were destroy so do human&#8217;s logical law. this question will not arise early him. This  Allah&#8217;s intelligence swt.</p>
<p>Conclusion Premise 1: God bound with His creation<br />
Premise 2: Time, space, physics law is His creation<br />
Premise 3: Lift stone is physics law, perpetrated in space and time<br />
Conclusion: Determine whether God can or not lift stone will be tying God to the creation. Breach the logic law.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1449</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1449</guid>
		<description>&quot;God can do all these that are able to be LOGICALLY done.&quot;

Can an Omnipotent God do anything that is NOT able to be LOGICALLY done?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;God can do all these that are able to be LOGICALLY done.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can an Omnipotent God do anything that is NOT able to be LOGICALLY done?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1448</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1448</guid>
		<description>&quot;If God created an immortal thing then He could also cause that same thing to stop existing. Existence and immortality are not the same thing. The thing may not be able to be killed but it can stop existing.&quot;

Can an Omnipotent God create an Immortal Being that he CANNOT KILL?

Can an Omnipotent God create a EVER-EXISTING Being which he CANNOT make to stop existing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If God created an immortal thing then He could also cause that same thing to stop existing. Existence and immortality are not the same thing. The thing may not be able to be killed but it can stop existing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can an Omnipotent God create an Immortal Being that he CANNOT KILL?</p>
<p>Can an Omnipotent God create a EVER-EXISTING Being which he CANNOT make to stop existing?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1447</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 19:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1447</guid>
		<description>After encountering even the First Stone Paradox, I can conclude that an Omnipotent Being cannot exist.

Of course, it doesn&#039;t follow that a non-omnipotent being does not exist.

However, the Ontological Argument for God&#039;s Existence had been refuted long ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After encountering even the First Stone Paradox, I can conclude that an Omnipotent Being cannot exist.</p>
<p>Of course, it doesn&#8217;t follow that a non-omnipotent being does not exist.</p>
<p>However, the Ontological Argument for God&#8217;s Existence had been refuted long ago.</p>
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		<title>By: snoman</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1291</link>
		<dc:creator>snoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1291</guid>
		<description>Honestly, the thought of an eternity spent with a tyrant like the Judeo-Christian god scares me so much that I would prefer hell.  I&#039;d have damn good company too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, the thought of an eternity spent with a tyrant like the Judeo-Christian god scares me so much that I would prefer hell.  I&#8217;d have damn good company too.</p>
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		<title>By: marlon</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1090</link>
		<dc:creator>marlon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1090</guid>
		<description>aitheists are actually insecure guys. Deep down inside you&#039;ll have the fear of ending up in hell IF indeed God actually does exist :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aitheists are actually insecure guys. Deep down inside you&#8217;ll have the fear of ending up in hell IF indeed God actually does exist <img src='http://www.the-atheist.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.the-atheist.com/logical-challenges-to-a-deitys-existence-the-omnipotence-paradox/#comment-1089</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the-atheist.com/?p=258#comment-1089</guid>
		<description>&quot;What logical method was used to instigate the Virgin Birth?&quot;

Actually I am not entirely sure. The Bible does not give much in the way of details. But, yes, it is obvious that God intervened directly.

There is confusion here about too many things to give answers to them all. The most central one appears to be:

&quot;If I read you correclty, it does seem as though you are also trying to define the limits of your chosen diety’s omnipotence based on the laws and rules of science as we know it.&quot;

I am simply trying to explain what &quot;omnipotence&quot; means. Or rather, explaining why an inability to do something self-contradictory is not a limit to omnipotence.

It is true that God could have created things totally differently, and yes, this means that &quot;before creation&quot; (an uncomfortable term, since time is also created, as I&#039;ve discussed elsewhere on this blog) the universe is not naturally possible. ie it requires direct intervention from God to exist at all. However, it would still be logically possible. As you say, God &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; (and maybe will so far as I know) create a whole new &#039;universe&#039; (another uncomfortable term, since this ought to include everything that exists in it, and so strictly there is only one) tomorrow. You are completely correct - he is not bound &quot;by the physical laws of one of his creations?&quot; (hence the possibility of the virgin birth in the first place).

Also, I don&#039;t believe I ever saw (and certainly never accepted) the argument that God is logically incapable of making an immortal....

The only thing I have been trying to point out is that God is incapable of doing something that doesn&#039;t make sense, because that is not really a &quot;something&quot; to be done in any case. It is nonsense in the strict sense of the term and impinges on omnipotence in no way at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What logical method was used to instigate the Virgin Birth?&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually I am not entirely sure. The Bible does not give much in the way of details. But, yes, it is obvious that God intervened directly.</p>
<p>There is confusion here about too many things to give answers to them all. The most central one appears to be:</p>
<p>&#8220;If I read you correclty, it does seem as though you are also trying to define the limits of your chosen diety’s omnipotence based on the laws and rules of science as we know it.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am simply trying to explain what &#8220;omnipotence&#8221; means. Or rather, explaining why an inability to do something self-contradictory is not a limit to omnipotence.</p>
<p>It is true that God could have created things totally differently, and yes, this means that &#8220;before creation&#8221; (an uncomfortable term, since time is also created, as I&#8217;ve discussed elsewhere on this blog) the universe is not naturally possible. ie it requires direct intervention from God to exist at all. However, it would still be logically possible. As you say, God <i>could</i> (and maybe will so far as I know) create a whole new &#8216;universe&#8217; (another uncomfortable term, since this ought to include everything that exists in it, and so strictly there is only one) tomorrow. You are completely correct &#8211; he is not bound &#8220;by the physical laws of one of his creations?&#8221; (hence the possibility of the virgin birth in the first place).</p>
<p>Also, I don&#8217;t believe I ever saw (and certainly never accepted) the argument that God is logically incapable of making an immortal&#8230;.</p>
<p>The only thing I have been trying to point out is that God is incapable of doing something that doesn&#8217;t make sense, because that is not really a &#8220;something&#8221; to be done in any case. It is nonsense in the strict sense of the term and impinges on omnipotence in no way at all.</p>
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