Comments on: Did Jesus Deal with the Devil? http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/ Just another WordPress site Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:49:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: joe http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-2679 joe Sun, 21 Aug 2011 23:06:37 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-2679 if you really belive in christ or any god then you wouldnt have so many worldly possesions until no one needed if you really belive in christ or any god then you wouldnt have so many worldly possesions until no one needed

]]> By: Mike http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-1581 Mike Fri, 19 Nov 2010 21:50:42 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-1581 I would say your assumption comes from the modern Christian understanding of the devil as a powerful ruler of Hell. This would not have been the understanding in antiquity among Jews (or for modern Jews who don't believe in a physical Hell). Jewish scriptures and related works like the Talmud consider "the satan" to be a title, not a name, for the accuser or for an agent of God who challenges our faith. Look at Job chapters 1-2 and you will see that this agent is in court with god and other angels discussing how to test Job. I think when you view it in that light, you'll see that this is a very typical role for the satan to play, an there is probably not anything else meant by the encounter. It would have been very familiar to Jews of the time. It's not until later Christianity that we have the Devil, He'll with eternal fire, original sin, etc. I would say your assumption comes from the modern Christian understanding of the devil as a powerful ruler of Hell. This would not have been the understanding in antiquity among Jews (or for modern Jews who don’t believe in a physical Hell). Jewish scriptures and related works like the Talmud consider “the satan” to be a title, not a name, for the accuser or for an agent of God who challenges our faith. Look at Job chapters 1-2 and you will see that this agent is in court with god and other angels discussing how to test Job. I think when you view it in that light, you’ll see that this is a very typical role for the satan to play, an there is probably not anything else meant by the encounter. It would have been very familiar to Jews of the time. It’s not until later Christianity that we have the Devil, He’ll with eternal fire, original sin, etc.

]]> By: Jonathan Baker http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-307 Jonathan Baker Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:10:14 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-307 This is pure nonsense and you and Atheist both know it. It makes no sense at all to suggest that Jesus endured all that suffering to redeem us (which was precisely the point of the temptation: to pretend to be able to offer this <i>without</i> having to endure the cross). There is a philosophical saying: "Nemo dat quod non habet" - no one gives what he does not have. While the Devil has free will (just like you and I) and this can be a powerful weapon for a pure intellect (as all angels are), he is not infinite like God. He might well be able to tempt Jesus with an escape route from the suffering he is about to endure, but can not offer to raise him from the dead. The temptations of the devil are subtle and tantalising (as indeed are most of our temptations to sin) but ultimately they are deceptions. You don't really get what they offer, but harm yourself instead. All this is pretty basic theology for anyone who was <i>sincerely</I> interested in the topic... This is pure nonsense and you and Atheist both know it. It makes no sense at all to suggest that Jesus endured all that suffering to redeem us (which was precisely the point of the temptation: to pretend to be able to offer this without having to endure the cross).

There is a philosophical saying: “Nemo dat quod non habet” – no one gives what he does not have. While the Devil has free will (just like you and I) and this can be a powerful weapon for a pure intellect (as all angels are), he is not infinite like God. He might well be able to tempt Jesus with an escape route from the suffering he is about to endure, but can not offer to raise him from the dead. The temptations of the devil are subtle and tantalising (as indeed are most of our temptations to sin) but ultimately they are deceptions. You don’t really get what they offer, but harm yourself instead.

All this is pretty basic theology for anyone who was sincerely interested in the topic…

]]> By: Peter gore seer http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-306 Peter gore seer Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:38:15 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-306 Help I am inbetween if I tell atheist I HAVE touch the cloak of Jesus I get a silence if I tell my priest well his face I am vary careful what I say Jesus save my granddaughter life I believe Jesus is working and is around you all I ask Wye me I am a sinner I don't tick any boxes. My granddaughter will never know she will not go to Church and yet I saw his feet I touch is robe.AMEN Help I am inbetween if I tell atheist I HAVE touch the cloak of Jesus I get a silence if I tell my priest well his face I am vary careful what I say Jesus save my granddaughter life I believe Jesus is working and is around you all I ask Wye me I am a sinner I don’t tick any boxes. My granddaughter will never know she will not go to Church and yet I saw his feet I touch is robe.AMEN

]]> By: ImmortalityLTD http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-305 ImmortalityLTD Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:30:18 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-305 Jonathan, neither can you rule out the possibility. The author simply asks a question, he doesn't insist it is what happened. Let's use an example: Joe has a basket full of candy bars. He offers one to Sally. Sally tells Joe, "Oh, I really shouldn't!" Later, we see Sally eating a candy bar. Did she get it from Joe, or from someone else? We cannot know for certain, and that was all the author was trying to point out. Jonathan, neither can you rule out the possibility. The author simply asks a question, he doesn’t insist it is what happened.

Let’s use an example: Joe has a basket full of candy bars. He offers one to Sally. Sally tells Joe, “Oh, I really shouldn’t!” Later, we see Sally eating a candy bar. Did she get it from Joe, or from someone else? We cannot know for certain, and that was all the author was trying to point out.

]]> By: Jonathan Baker http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-304 Jonathan Baker Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:26:36 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-304 Atheist, as you say, you're no Bible scholar - that much is clear. But you're also not logical. If A offers B something, and later it is discovered that B has it, you can't infer that A gave it, and if you want to argue that A <i>did</i> give it, you need to explain why, at least if that is the whole point of your argument. In this case, that would mean becoming a Bible scholar, which you clearly state you do not want to be... Atheist, as you say, you’re no Bible scholar – that much is clear. But you’re also not logical. If A offers B something, and later it is discovered that B has it, you can’t infer that A gave it, and if you want to argue that A did give it, you need to explain why, at least if that is the whole point of your argument. In this case, that would mean becoming a Bible scholar, which you clearly state you do not want to be…

]]> By: wes http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-303 wes Fri, 12 Jun 2009 05:28:47 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-303 Back to the initial question, "Did God or satan raise Jesus?" Yes it says that satan tempted Jesus but what satan tempted Jesus to do was to save himself and make a spectacle of God. Satan did not offer magic invincibility powers to Jesus. He told to Jesus to jump off the temple because if Jesus was who He said He was, "He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone." (matthew 4:6) It wasn't satan's powers that were going to save Jesus from the fall, it was God's. So the idea that satan raised Jesus from the dead from that viewpoint isn't biblical. And you have to look at it biblicaly if you are recognizing satan as being who satan is and the fact that he tempted Jesus. Just thought I would set that straight as far as what the bible says. To those of you who are seeking and trying to figure all this out, read what the bible actually says about God. It is very different from what most of us Christians make it out to be. Because we are sinful and live in a messed up world. But I believe the only hope to stop this sad way of life we idolize is by following Jesus and becoming more like Him. Salvation doesn't come through following a set of rules. It comes through knowing Christ. Keep searching. Back to the initial question, “Did God or satan raise Jesus?”

Yes it says that satan tempted Jesus but what satan tempted Jesus to do was to save himself and make a spectacle of God. Satan did not offer magic invincibility powers to Jesus. He told to Jesus to jump off the temple because if Jesus was who He said He was,

“He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.” (matthew 4:6)

It wasn’t satan’s powers that were going to save Jesus from the fall, it was God’s. So the idea that satan raised Jesus from the dead from that viewpoint isn’t biblical. And you have to look at it biblicaly if you are recognizing satan as being who satan is and the fact that he tempted Jesus.

Just thought I would set that straight as far as what the bible says.

To those of you who are seeking and trying to figure all this out, read what the bible actually says about God. It is very different from what most of us Christians make it out to be. Because we are sinful and live in a messed up world. But I believe the only hope to stop this sad way of life we idolize is by following Jesus and becoming more like Him.

Salvation doesn’t come through following a set of rules. It comes through knowing Christ.

Keep searching.

]]> By: youngster http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-302 youngster Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:15:57 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-302 If you read the bible instead of mocky God, you would know the answer. He does heal them, he gives them the strength to deal with the pain of loss, and helps them thru thier daily life. Remember, God did not make them that way, MAN did. If you read the bible instead of mocky God, you would know the answer.

He does heal them, he gives them the strength to deal with the pain of loss, and helps them thru thier daily life.

Remember, God did not make them that way, MAN did.

]]> By: Belief vs. Belief http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-301 Belief vs. Belief Mon, 16 Feb 2009 03:58:48 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-301 All in all... I think believing, having hope is the surest way to being a happy person. Though this requires a person to "do to unto others as..." also to be NON-judgemental, forgiving (truly, really forgiving...) makers of peace not hate... these are the qualities of a loving God, the one I choose to believe. All in all… I think believing, having hope is the surest way to being a happy person. Though this requires a person to “do to unto others as…” also to be NON-judgemental, forgiving (truly, really forgiving…) makers of peace not hate… these are the qualities of a loving God, the one I choose to believe.

]]> By: Christians ARE Athiests http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-300 Christians ARE Athiests Mon, 16 Feb 2009 03:13:33 +0000 http://www.the-atheist.com/did-jesus-deal-with-the-devil/#comment-300 The weirdest, perhaps scariest thing about christians is the sheer absense of empathy for relatives, friends and co-workers they believe are going to hell. What kind of person can live day to day believing this and yet walk around all smiley because they are "saved". Psychopaths come to my mind. Considering my years in "the church" I met countless of those... yet the most down to earth, caring, NON-judgemental people I've ever met, didn't believe in bible hocus pocus... Christians love to praise God when something goes *right*... yet, when something doesn't go *right*, who do they blame? Your daughter was out with three friends... they get in an unfortunate wreck and all die, except for your daughter... would you say that God loved your daughter more than the others? Or would you say, naw, it was the other girls time to go? Either way, to pretend that God favors one over another is a direct contradiction to what's taught in the bible... discounting jewish people of course... being God's favorite people... the very ones that don't believe in Jesus Christ. I could go on and on... do your research... and while you're at it, find one, just *one* amputee that God "healed" by reforming the missing limb (without medical intervention)... and I'll have to re-think everything all over again. As Jesus said himself... "test everything". Probably the BEST advice this man ever gave to anyone. The weirdest, perhaps scariest thing about christians is the sheer absense of empathy for relatives, friends and co-workers they believe are going to hell. What kind of person can live day to day believing this and yet walk around all smiley because they are “saved”. Psychopaths come to my mind. Considering my years in “the church” I met countless of those… yet the most down to earth, caring, NON-judgemental people I’ve ever met, didn’t believe in bible hocus pocus…

Christians love to praise God when something goes *right*… yet, when something doesn’t go *right*, who do they blame?

Your daughter was out with three friends… they get in an unfortunate wreck and all die, except for your daughter… would you say that God loved your daughter more than the others? Or would you say, naw, it was the other girls time to go? Either way, to pretend that God favors one over another is a direct contradiction to what’s taught in the bible… discounting jewish people of course… being God’s favorite people… the very ones that don’t believe in Jesus Christ.

I could go on and on… do your research… and while you’re at it, find one, just *one* amputee that God “healed” by reforming the missing limb (without medical intervention)… and I’ll have to re-think everything all over again. As Jesus said himself… “test everything”. Probably the BEST advice this man ever gave to anyone.

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